Wow it's safely been a decade and a half since I've even thought almost these episodes! Thanks for bringing information technology'southward memory dorsum to life.
On a slightly different note, these episodes (substantially, plays) didn't capture some of the spirit that the book shares. The book is more sombre in my opinion, information technology informs the reader of the things that happened (albeit in a Hardcode history - like manner, very fantastical and poetic), and it doesn't offer any pre or post-canter. A drive-by ballsy, if you'd like.
The story itself is extremely layered. The "comic book" layer with the epic heroes and battles are certainly valid and become people hooked young. And so y'all can get into the graphic symbol studies, the sociological theories, the philosophy and metaphysics, etc.
Never read religious texts before, but I call back Oppenheimer's famous quote, "Now I am go Expiry, the destroyer of worlds." What stuff might be interesting in Bhagavad Gita for a scientist similar him?
The Bhagavad Gita is actually a philosophy of living life past calmly performing duty while beingness outcome contained. It's one of the popular philosophies that discusses what is right activeness. Especially what is correct activeness in extremely uncertain and hard circumstances such as what Oppenheimer faced. The main protagonist of the Gita is a warrior facing his own kinsmen in the battlefield and his charioteer the symbolic representation of the divine guides him through his moral dilemma. Their dialogue is the Bhagavad Gita translated every bit "The song of the Lord".
The Bhagavid Gita attempts to define a person's response to a life event by decomposing it into "dharma" and "karma". Dharma is external and is specified by a person's birth, caste, etc. (essentially societal factors) whereas Karma is more than personal and rises out of actions from a human's conscious volition. It attempts to propose the right action past checking what is practiced dharma and expert karma only as I've read in a beautiful introduction to the Mahabharata translation by John D. Smith, Dharma and Karma can often point in opposite directions.
I thoroughly agree that the central idea of the Bhagavad Gita is to do your chore without unnecessary worry or anxiety about the outcome. I've seen similar ideas in Epictetus's Enchiridion (put yourself to things in your command and forget about things beyond your ability) and more recently in the notion of "separation of tasks" cardinal to Alfred Adler's works. Irrespective of the source, the idea of focussing on my job without worrying about the result has been immensely helpful to me in moments of great anxiety and doubtfulness.
I the lessons I personally took from it is following your path fifty-fifty though other paths may seem more bonny. Follow your calling essentially.
I retrieve that's really really wrong estimation of information technology. Information technology tells you your karma (deportment) should always exist dictated by your dharma (the correct thing to practice, nix to exercise with caste btw, non certain how that got into the translation if it did).
Krishna tells Arjun (the warrior beingness mentioned here) that it doesn't matter that information technology'due south your kinsmen including some which are the salt of the earth on the other side. Y'all fight them because they are standing for adharma (injustice) and y'all should always stand for dharma (justice) no thing the personal cost.
> your dharma (the correct thing to do, nothing to do with degree btw, non sure how that got into the translation if information technology did).
The right thing to do is non universal. Dharma doesn't identify the same responsibilities on a king and a peasant. Your dharma is dependent on your role in the larger society and thus on your caste. The Mahabharata itself has more than than a hundred references to Kshatriya dharma which is unsurprising given its martial context.
Information technology also seems a little cynical in places nigh how that specific conception of "Kshatriya dharma" plays out. Well-nigh of the central conflicts of the tale circumduct around people being trapped past certain obligations stemming from hardline adherence to certain Kshatriya codes of honour. Towards the cease at that place is a whole soliloquy where someone widowed by the war is heaping the blame for the carnage of Krishna and everyone involved in upholding what she believes to be insane adherence to codes of loyalty and never backing down on a promise once given.
Krishna kind of receives it with a shrug, and eventually his own clan is annihilated past infighting and all the principal heroes of the tale save Yudistra perish with only the briefest and one-half-hearted eulogy that elucidates their main tragic flaw, like Arjuna'southward vanity. In fact, Krishna'southward whole purpose for incarnating is said to be a mission to "unburden the Earth" of these Kshatriyas and the ceaseless conflicts they brought to the world.
So in a way the story is as much about the importance of Dharma as information technology is about the passing (and possible follies) of that rigid conception of Dharma from the globe. The stop of the conflict ushers in the Kali Yuga, an aeon of strife in which it is stated explicitly that what is and is not dharmic conduct becomes hard to parse.
> Krishna'southward whole purpose for incarnating is said to exist a mission to "unburden the Earth" of these Kshatriyas and the ceaseless conflicts they brought to the world.
Facinating. I've never heard of this estimation earlier. Do you have any sources that talk over this? A quick Google search didn't show annihilation.
It'due south in a diverseness of commentaries on the Puranas. This from the Srimad Bagavatam is just an example: https://vedabase.io/en/library/tqk/17/
The reasons why the World was "burdened" is up for interpretation. The commentary I linked comes from a pretty hardline "Krishnaist" point of view which is a chip on the messianic and manichean side. But wiping out all the "fallen" kshatriyas is one of the traditionally understood purposes for the Krishna incarnation.
Information technology'south difficult to deny that at the end of the Mahabharata literally all the Kshatriyas are expressionless, including Krishna's own association who wipe themselves out as a consequence of having some sort of senseless frenzy come over them. The only one who survives the historic period is 1 of Arjuna's grandsons, from whom all subsequent Kshatriya lineages are said to derive. (Although well-nigh modern ones are actually various sequences of steppe invaders who got integrated into Hindu social club).
>The reasons why the Earth was "burdened" is up for interpretation.
So, the source does not back up your merits in any way, past your own access?
The source is pretty much but reiterating the Gita'due south line: Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious exercise, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion – at that time I descend Myself.
>But wiping out all the "fallen" kshatriyas is one of the traditionally understood purposes for the Krishna incarnation.
Traditionally co-ordinate to who? I have not heard this estimation even once, and you accept failed to procure a source.
> So, the source does non support your claim in whatever mode, by your own admission?
You could simply read it yourself and see that it does say he was there to wipe out the Kshatriyas. What'south upwardly for interpretation is what "burdened" means. You will discover most religious texts leave many things like this up for estimation because they're the outputs of evolving, oral traditions and not fixed technical manuals.
> I have not heard this interpretation even once
Then I have serious doubts as to how knowledgable you lot are on the subject. This is given equally the key reason for the events of the Mausala Parva and why the hunter who ends up killing Krishna is held blameless for simply executing the last step in Krishna fulfilling his Dharma. The whole of the Mahabharata is nearly the concept of yagna/sacrifice, the eradication of the old to make way for the next Yuga.
> Then I have serious doubts as to how knowledgable yous are on the bailiwick
Let me remove all your doubts and clinch you that I have absolute no knowledge of the bailiwick whatsoever, apart from what comes from being born in a not-particularly-religious Hindu family. I never claimed any special knowledge nor do I demand any to be able to verify your merits.
Y'all are making a straightforward, factual claim that it is the accepted view that the whole purpose of Krishna was to wipe out the Kshatriyas. I am not even asking yous to establish that this is the accepted view, which is your full claim. I am just request for one source that reiterates the same view.
> You could simply read it yourself and meet that information technology does say he was there to wipe out the Kshatriyas.
I have skimmed through the article several times and I could not find anything suggesting that. Can you please quote the relevant sentence/paragraph from the article?
>Information technology's not an 'article' it's a transcription of a book. There are multiple pages.
Forget linking to the correct affiliate of the book, you had not fifty-fifty linked to the correct book. How did you lot expect anyone to verify your claim!?
Fascinating and... wrong. Krishna strongly portrays himself as the creator and preserver of the Varnashrama Dharma in the Bhagavad Gita.
The Bhagavid Gita is non a religious book. Information technology'south a philosophical treatise. It is a book that is to be analyzed, contemplated and debated.
It clarifies on the way of the globe, the duties of a man being, on how to decide what is right and incorrect (or what is sin and not).
Ultimately, it posits that what we endure every bit humans, are substantially results of our own actions (karma). However these effects are not limited to the lifetime of the human grade (because Gita posits that the human body is perishable, but the soul is non-perishable and carries forward the karmic furnishings).
It puts the cause of man suffering on humans themselves and posits that to escape this never catastrophe bicycle of cause-reaction, disengagement is the merely way forwards.
Gita and then explains what is detachment. How to exist detached from our actions, thereby breaking the cycle of re-birth and ending our suffering.
So, in the context of Oppenheimer, I speculate that his reading of Gita made him aware of his actions and the karmic effects of it on his soul.
Background Note : Hinduism puts forth that this universe and our existence is not the outcome of some being / God. Equally, logically, speaking, if the universe came to be from the actions of some superior existence, then it is implied that some higher being fabricated this superior being, and the bureaucracy goes on without end. Hinduism posits that this is cool and that the universe is nothing but god. Every molecule, every atom, every soul is an expression of god.
> Background Annotation : Hinduism puts forth that this universe and our being is not the outcome of some being / God. As, logically, speaking, if the universe came to be from the actions of some superior beingness, and then it is implied that some higher existence fabricated this superior being, and the hierarchy goes on without end. Hinduism posits that this is absurd and that the universe is nothing merely god. Every molecule, every atom, every soul is an expression of god.
Your statements are directly refuted by the Gita itself:
BG 10.39: I am the generating seed of all living beings, O Arjun. No animal moving or non-moving can be without me.
BG 10.42: What need is at that place for all this detailed knowledge, O Arjun? Simply know that past one fraction of my being, I pervade and support this entire creation.
BG 10.8: I am the origin of all creation. Everything gain from me. The wise who know this perfectly worship me with great faith and devotion.
There is no problem of infinite regress when God is defined as the uncaused crusade.
Neither is a scripture existence both religious in nature and philosophical a mutual exclusivity.
>The Bhagavid Gita is not a religious book
Only somebody who has never read the Gita tin say this.
What stuff might exist interesting in Bhagavad Gita for a scientist like him?
There shouldn't be an implication that science and faith are at odds - perhaps the cartoon interpretation of religion past some segments of intellectual society, but scientists of sometime were oft struggling to reconcile their desire of increased cognition of the physical world with their faiths.
Isaac Newton for example, wrote more papers most religion than he did about science and math[0]:
How much of Newton's writing has survived?
A huge amount. There'due south roughly 10 meg words that Newton left. Effectually one-half of the writing is religious, and there are about 1 million words on alchemical textile, virtually of which is copies of other people's stuff. In that location are near one 1000000 words related to his work as Chief of the Mint. Then roughly 3 meg related to science and math.
It'southward a useful idea framework to rid yourself of the feet of doing things you think are morally questionable.
Side note, I understand that's a pocket-size mistranslation: "Death" is more similar "Time" (which eventually destroys all things). In that line, I imagine a Hindu counterpart of Chronos -- Fourth dimension the Reaper, which mows men downwardly at the cease of their flavor, like so much grass. Ozymandias also.
This, then, would have less to do with the explosive power of the Trinity exam, and more to do with the decaying remnants of missile silos, which are already ruins.
Oppenheimer'south quote is, while not quite a mistranslation, incomplete. The original quote would more properly interpret every bit an incarnation of "time" rather than "death."
Anybody who is honest will tell you that Hindu religious texts are ultimately about justification for "varnashrama dharma".
(Varnas are plainly a niggling different from its contemporary form - caste, but also shares many essential features. Namely, pre-determination of social status and broad occupations based on birth and endogamy, although it'due south more like a woman from a college varna can not marry a man from a lower varna.)
Why is Arjuna's dharma to fight? Considering he is a Kshatriya. Why shouldn't Arjuna worry well-nigh what consequences the war might have on his family unit and club? Well, because Krishna himself is the upholder of Varnashrama Dharma. Arjuna should only worry about doing his duty, and non worry about such lofty matters.
>Hindu religious texts are ultimately about justification for "varnashrama dharma"
No! That is a very shortsighted and narrow view of a complex and nuanced subject.
For details, I recommend that you lot look into the works on Dharma and Ashrama System by the noted Indologist Patrick Olivelle.
>What stuff might exist interesting in Bhagavad Gita for a scientist similar him?
A specific Worldview and cultivating a Mindset to become with information technology which takes Decease and Total Destruction equally role of a Universal Lifecycle.
Bhagvad Gita is a proponent of merely war. Ambivalence in Bhagvad Gita tin be used to endorse any position you find yourself in. Human activity but don't act - perfect text which gives aplenty manoeuvring space if you are feeling spiritual.
Non really. War is definitely the context in that location as it is said that information technology was spoken during the war itself, just it lays out what to do at what time. It isn't ambiguous plenty so that anyone can interpret it in any way. It lays out the scenarios and only states what is right to do in that scenario.
The ambiguity lies in which scenario you're choosing as an analog to your present. And yes the Bhagavad Gita is great for justifying atrocities to the individual, hence why Himmler carried it around.
No. As with everything else in life, context is important. One can hands merely read it and and so go on to justify their doings using information technology if they either don't know or choose to ignore the context of it.
Whole of Bhagvad Gita was spoken during the Mahabharata War. Information technology contains some overall guidance i.due east. it can be applicable to normal day life likewise as situational guidance on the context of the going war.
In mahabharata war countless men died.
Information technology was all justified by someone who goes by proper noun Krishna in ancient text. Krishna origin is questionable every bit he's not ane person throughout his history but fusion of multiple personalities which existed in by.
Krishna could as well be a master manipulator who convinced other's that God and him are actually just one. Many Kings of that fourth dimension actually did try to get God the prime case was Pondrak who believed he'southward the existent Vasudev. His version couldn't survive considering he lost the battle confronting Krishna.
Mahabharata is not useful to for an average person, reading information technology will not enlighten you or anything. It's not a guide on how to live your life, it has many flaws, questionable ethics and morality defined in the text, bringing God into it to brand beyond contest.
If information technology had annihilation of utilize, India where this religious text is most popular would exist epicenter of skilful beliefs, technological advancements, ideals and morality. Is it? No information technology's far away from information technology.
Before anyone questions my organized religion, I am Hindu from north Bharat (Uttarakhand Purohit clan to exist specific)
1. In the first sentence you talk about the Mahabharata war as it was real.
two. Then y'all disbelieve Krishna existence not existent.
Do yous encounter the obvious logical contradiction? Btw, unlike Christianity, Hinduism doesn't rely on Mahabharta being real. And so this bending is a common assault from Christians.
Your previous comment:
> 666 is number of the beast. I wonder how many thiest scientists would have refused to piece of work on information technology if they were to use 666
Why would a non-Christian believe that?
You lot are probably new to the site and don't know that people can come across your past comments.
Your language perfectly mirrors the ane used by missionaries in India (studied at 1 such school only didn't get baptized).
India always had one of the biggest economies in the earth before Industrial Revolution in the Europe.
Expecting anything to exist "epicentre of proficient behavior" is wrong to begin with because every person is different no matter what any text/information/knowledge the person has access to and aboriginal Republic of india (as that is what we're talking about here) did have stable economies as well every bit kingdoms. Was information technology perfect? No, because nothing is.
India had pretty meaning technological advancements and all you lot have to exercise is Google Search for information technology.
Y'all have cool definition of "anything of use". If you want everything to be perfect, then bad luck, in that location isn't such identify to go for yous.
AFAIK, Krishna was a charioteer in the original mahabharata from 1000BC. Later additions to the story around 400-200BC turned him into a God. The Gita is as well a afterward introduction. How does this gel with Krishna being an amalgamation of multiple personalities, equally opposed to a later invention (past Brahmins?) to justify varna vyavastha or other objectives? I have read that Gita was created as a response to Buddhist texts besides.
> It's not a guide on how to live your life, it has many flaws, questionable ethics and morality defined in the text, bringing God into it to make beyond contest.
Can you please elaborate.
>Earlier anyone questions my faith, I am Hindu from northward India (Uttarakhand Purohit clan to exist specific)
What Vedanta schoolhouse of estimation are you talking about.
That's the greatness of Bhargava's Gita and Hinduism. You lot are admittedly entitled to your own stance and questions. As did Arjuna who pestered Krishna with continuous questions in Bhargava's Gita. Hinduism , more specifically Santayana Dharma is not based on commandments , it is based on questions and answers.
Every bit a Hindu I would exist very interested in parts of Gita which justify atrocities. I don't empathise how anybody would spread nonsense like that.
War for Dharma, and you perfectly know everything can exist called dharma in Hindu religious texts. Cleaning toilets, dharma for the subjugated degree Hindu; worshipping god - dharma for the dominant degree Hindu; fighting territorial war - dharma for the kshtriya. Dharma is primal cadre of bhagvad gita and which renders information technology ambiguous and yet bonny to sure people. Define whatsoever as your dharma and y'all are on your mode to do good.
Modernistic Example: Steve Bannon was divers every bit Dharmic warrior by Indian Delegate Full general to The states.
Non actually, Bhagvad Gita, like near Hindu religious texts, is a justification for Varnashrama Dharma.
If anyone is curious about good versions of the text, or virtually the Mahabharata in full general, I recommend Bibek Debroy. His 20 volume Mahabharata is very well written, and includes the Bhagavad Gita. Notwithstanding he has other translations of the Gita in and of itself. They're all worth a wait-see.
The Bhagavad Gita is i of the most extensively translated texts in the world. Unfortunately this allows a lot of not-so-good and personal interpretations to pollute an unbiased study of the text. I found the following two translations/interpretations pretty skilful to get at the cardinal ideas;
* The Bhagavad Gita (Oxford Globe'southward Classics) translated by West.J.Johnson - This is a very good and succinct translation in the spirit of the original text and should be the starting time one you lot read.
* The Bhagavad Gita (ii vols in ane) translated and interpreted by Franklin Edgerton - Contains one of the best interpretations of the Gita based on the underlying Hindu Worldviews. Edgerton was a giant in Sanskrit studies and his luminescence shows here.
This is brilliant thank you, some great real world advice in Hindu texts.
I wonder if Yoga is now mainstream, and Mindfulness aka Meditation which is ane of the Eight limbs of Yoga. THe due west will now start reading more than into Hindu scriptures.
If anyone wants to read the original texts of the Gita its here
https://asitis.com/
A caput's up to anyone who decides to use this source: The translation and commentary in Bhagawat Gita As It Is are from ISKCON's particular estimation of the Gaudiya Vaishna perspective. While they become a disproportionate amount of printing relative to their size, they are non representative of mainstream Hinduism.
This is truthful near it being from ISKCON however it is incorrect to say they are not representative of mainstream Hinduism, at to the lowest degree not in the Britain. A huge number of the Gita volume distribution is in their format as its a trusted source (rather than British Raj time interpretations).
Even the boilerplate Hindu who is non from ISKCON will happily attend and follow ISKCON teachings equally they are considered bona fied, look how many turned upwards to Janmashtami celebrations this week:
I would rather trust this translation from a trained lineage.
The Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition sees Krishna as the original class of god. Every other school considers Krishna to be an avatar of Vishnu. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is considered an avatar of Krishna by Gaudiya Vaishnavas while anybody else sees him equally a mortal devotee of Krishna and non Krishna himself.
These are fundamental differences in theology. Prabubada's translation is in service of the beliefs of his lineage which at times are incomparably confronting what the mainstream believes.
The fact that ISKCON is popular in a country where less than ~1.v% of the population identifies as Hindu doesn't mean that they are representative of mainstream Hinduism.
At that place are probably dozens of other translations by bonafide practitioners of other lineages which are closer to what the vast bulk of Hindus actually believe.
Simply because only Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition sees Krishna as the original form of God. Does not hateful other Hindu philosophies don't either. Goto any Sanatan Temple and they will have his Deity and preach the one accepted scripture the Gita which besides states he is the highest class. Many other traditions accept Vishnu's forms as the highest. The concept of ism, Vaishnavism and Shiavism is very much a British classification using English linguistic communication words.
Recently came across a very good video on YouTube past a guy named cogito(1) which mentions Bhagavad gita, vedas and gives a skillful unbiased intro to Hinduism.
If you're curious near it and how the whole thing like caste system, etc evolved it's a good intro.
(one) xlBEEuYIWwY
Overall a good video, merely information technology gets i office wrong: caste has e'er been from nascency, not power. This is a dishonest estimation that has been attempted to seemingly make Hinduism more uniform with mod values.
Every bit an example, in Ramayana, in a story starting from chapter 73 (The Death of a Brahmin's Son), Rama kills a Shudra for performing ascetic rituals. The unrighteousness of this Shudra performing these rituals - suitable for Brahmins - was apparently the reason for the death of the kid.
Most of the caste aspects afaik were introduced into the original texts after 400BC. These include Balakand, uttarakand (shambuka), Gita etc.
This implies some course of birth based degree system existing earlier 400BC which was solidified via new religious texts and additions to already popular old texts culminating with the Manusmriti and rigid degree system by 200 AD. The obvious beneficiaries were the Brahmins who wrote the text. Older texts are a chip more fluid in terms of nascency based caste.
I read Bhagavad Gita for a philosophy course. It made me very interested in religion and philosophy. Highly recommend it for anyone, it's a relatively arctic read too.
Wow it's safely been a decade and a half since I've even thought almost these episodes! Thanks for bringing information technology'southward memory dorsum to life.
On a slightly different note, these episodes (substantially, plays) didn't capture some of the spirit that the book shares. The book is more sombre in my opinion, information technology informs the reader of the things that happened (albeit in a Hardcode history - like manner, very fantastical and poetic), and it doesn't offer any pre or post-canter. A drive-by ballsy, if you'd like.
The story itself is extremely layered. The "comic book" layer with the epic heroes and battles are certainly valid and become people hooked young. And so y'all can get into the graphic symbol studies, the sociological theories, the philosophy and metaphysics, etc.
Never read religious texts before, but I call back Oppenheimer's famous quote, "Now I am go Expiry, the destroyer of worlds." What stuff might be interesting in Bhagavad Gita for a scientist similar him?
The Bhagavad Gita is actually a philosophy of living life past calmly performing duty while beingness outcome contained. It's one of the popular philosophies that discusses what is right activeness. Especially what is correct activeness in extremely uncertain and hard circumstances such as what Oppenheimer faced. The main protagonist of the Gita is a warrior facing his own kinsmen in the battlefield and his charioteer the symbolic representation of the divine guides him through his moral dilemma. Their dialogue is the Bhagavad Gita translated every bit "The song of the Lord".
The Bhagavid Gita attempts to define a person's response to a life event by decomposing it into "dharma" and "karma". Dharma is external and is specified by a person's birth, caste, etc. (essentially societal factors) whereas Karma is more than personal and rises out of actions from a human's conscious volition. It attempts to propose the right action past checking what is practiced dharma and expert karma only as I've read in a beautiful introduction to the Mahabharata translation by John D. Smith, Dharma and Karma can often point in opposite directions.
I thoroughly agree that the central idea of the Bhagavad Gita is to do your chore without unnecessary worry or anxiety about the outcome. I've seen similar ideas in Epictetus's Enchiridion (put yourself to things in your command and forget about things beyond your ability) and more recently in the notion of "separation of tasks" cardinal to Alfred Adler's works. Irrespective of the source, the idea of focussing on my job without worrying about the result has been immensely helpful to me in moments of great anxiety and doubtfulness.
I the lessons I personally took from it is following your path fifty-fifty though other paths may seem more bonny. Follow your calling essentially.
I retrieve that's really really wrong estimation of information technology. Information technology tells you your karma (deportment) should always exist dictated by your dharma (the correct thing to practice, nix to exercise with caste btw, non certain how that got into the translation if it did).
Krishna tells Arjun (the warrior beingness mentioned here) that it doesn't matter that information technology'due south your kinsmen including some which are the salt of the earth on the other side. Y'all fight them because they are standing for adharma (injustice) and y'all should always stand for dharma (justice) no thing the personal cost.
> your dharma (the correct thing to do, nothing to do with degree btw, non sure how that got into the translation if information technology did).
The right thing to do is non universal. Dharma doesn't identify the same responsibilities on a king and a peasant. Your dharma is dependent on your role in the larger society and thus on your caste. The Mahabharata itself has more than than a hundred references to Kshatriya dharma which is unsurprising given its martial context.
Information technology also seems a little cynical in places nigh how that specific conception of "Kshatriya dharma" plays out. Well-nigh of the central conflicts of the tale circumduct around people being trapped past certain obligations stemming from hardline adherence to certain Kshatriya codes of honour. Towards the cease at that place is a whole soliloquy where someone widowed by the war is heaping the blame for the carnage of Krishna and everyone involved in upholding what she believes to be insane adherence to codes of loyalty and never backing down on a promise once given.
Krishna kind of receives it with a shrug, and eventually his own clan is annihilated past infighting and all the principal heroes of the tale save Yudistra perish with only the briefest and one-half-hearted eulogy that elucidates their main tragic flaw, like Arjuna'southward vanity. In fact, Krishna'southward whole purpose for incarnating is said to be a mission to "unburden the Earth" of these Kshatriyas and the ceaseless conflicts they brought to the world.
So in a way the story is as much about the importance of Dharma as information technology is about the passing (and possible follies) of that rigid conception of Dharma from the globe. The stop of the conflict ushers in the Kali Yuga, an aeon of strife in which it is stated explicitly that what is and is not dharmic conduct becomes hard to parse.
> Krishna'southward whole purpose for incarnating is said to exist a mission to "unburden the Earth" of these Kshatriyas and the ceaseless conflicts they brought to the world.
Facinating. I've never heard of this estimation earlier. Do you have any sources that talk over this? A quick Google search didn't show annihilation.
It'due south in a diverseness of commentaries on the Puranas. This from the Srimad Bagavatam is just an example: https://vedabase.io/en/library/tqk/17/
The reasons why the World was "burdened" is up for interpretation. The commentary I linked comes from a pretty hardline "Krishnaist" point of view which is a chip on the messianic and manichean side. But wiping out all the "fallen" kshatriyas is one of the traditionally understood purposes for the Krishna incarnation.
Information technology'south difficult to deny that at the end of the Mahabharata literally all the Kshatriyas are expressionless, including Krishna's own association who wipe themselves out as a consequence of having some sort of senseless frenzy come over them. The only one who survives the historic period is 1 of Arjuna's grandsons, from whom all subsequent Kshatriya lineages are said to derive. (Although well-nigh modern ones are actually various sequences of steppe invaders who got integrated into Hindu social club).
>The reasons why the Earth was "burdened" is up for interpretation.
So, the source does not back up your merits in any way, past your own access?
The source is pretty much but reiterating the Gita'due south line: Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious exercise, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion – at that time I descend Myself.
>But wiping out all the "fallen" kshatriyas is one of the traditionally understood purposes for the Krishna incarnation.
Traditionally co-ordinate to who? I have not heard this estimation even once, and you accept failed to procure a source.
> So, the source does non support your claim in whatever mode, by your own admission?
You could simply read it yourself and see that it does say he was there to wipe out the Kshatriyas. What'south upwardly for interpretation is what "burdened" means. You will discover most religious texts leave many things like this up for estimation because they're the outputs of evolving, oral traditions and not fixed technical manuals.
> I have not heard this interpretation even once
Then I have serious doubts as to how knowledgable you lot are on the subject. This is given equally the key reason for the events of the Mausala Parva and why the hunter who ends up killing Krishna is held blameless for simply executing the last step in Krishna fulfilling his Dharma. The whole of the Mahabharata is nearly the concept of yagna/sacrifice, the eradication of the old to make way for the next Yuga.
> Then I have serious doubts as to how knowledgable yous are on the bailiwick
Let me remove all your doubts and clinch you that I have absolute no knowledge of the bailiwick whatsoever, apart from what comes from being born in a not-particularly-religious Hindu family. I never claimed any special knowledge nor do I demand any to be able to verify your merits.
Y'all are making a straightforward, factual claim that it is the accepted view that the whole purpose of Krishna was to wipe out the Kshatriyas. I am not even asking yous to establish that this is the accepted view, which is your full claim. I am just request for one source that reiterates the same view.
> You could simply read it yourself and meet that information technology does say he was there to wipe out the Kshatriyas.
I have skimmed through the article several times and I could not find anything suggesting that. Can you please quote the relevant sentence/paragraph from the article?
>Information technology's not an 'article' it's a transcription of a book. There are multiple pages.
Forget linking to the correct affiliate of the book, you had not fifty-fifty linked to the correct book. How did you lot expect anyone to verify your claim!?
Fascinating and... wrong. Krishna strongly portrays himself as the creator and preserver of the Varnashrama Dharma in the Bhagavad Gita.
The Bhagavid Gita is non a religious book. Information technology'south a philosophical treatise. It is a book that is to be analyzed, contemplated and debated.
It clarifies on the way of the globe, the duties of a man being, on how to decide what is right and incorrect (or what is sin and not).
Ultimately, it posits that what we endure every bit humans, are substantially results of our own actions (karma). However these effects are not limited to the lifetime of the human grade (because Gita posits that the human body is perishable, but the soul is non-perishable and carries forward the karmic furnishings).
It puts the cause of man suffering on humans themselves and posits that to escape this never catastrophe bicycle of cause-reaction, disengagement is the merely way forwards.
Gita and then explains what is detachment. How to exist detached from our actions, thereby breaking the cycle of re-birth and ending our suffering.
So, in the context of Oppenheimer, I speculate that his reading of Gita made him aware of his actions and the karmic effects of it on his soul.
Background Note : Hinduism puts forth that this universe and our existence is not the outcome of some being / God. Equally, logically, speaking, if the universe came to be from the actions of some superior existence, then it is implied that some higher being fabricated this superior being, and the bureaucracy goes on without end. Hinduism posits that this is cool and that the universe is nothing but god. Every molecule, every atom, every soul is an expression of god.
> Background Annotation : Hinduism puts forth that this universe and our being is not the outcome of some being / God. As, logically, speaking, if the universe came to be from the actions of some superior beingness, and then it is implied that some higher existence fabricated this superior being, and the hierarchy goes on without end. Hinduism posits that this is absurd and that the universe is nothing merely god. Every molecule, every atom, every soul is an expression of god.
Your statements are directly refuted by the Gita itself:
BG 10.39: I am the generating seed of all living beings, O Arjun. No animal moving or non-moving can be without me.
BG 10.42: What need is at that place for all this detailed knowledge, O Arjun? Simply know that past one fraction of my being, I pervade and support this entire creation.
BG 10.8: I am the origin of all creation. Everything gain from me. The wise who know this perfectly worship me with great faith and devotion.
There is no problem of infinite regress when God is defined as the uncaused crusade.
Neither is a scripture existence both religious in nature and philosophical a mutual exclusivity.
>The Bhagavid Gita is not a religious book
Only somebody who has never read the Gita tin say this.
What stuff might exist interesting in Bhagavad Gita for a scientist like him?
There shouldn't be an implication that science and faith are at odds - perhaps the cartoon interpretation of religion past some segments of intellectual society, but scientists of sometime were oft struggling to reconcile their desire of increased cognition of the physical world with their faiths.
Isaac Newton for example, wrote more papers most religion than he did about science and math[0]:
How much of Newton's writing has survived?
A huge amount. There'due south roughly 10 meg words that Newton left. Effectually one-half of the writing is religious, and there are about 1 million words on alchemical textile, virtually of which is copies of other people's stuff. In that location are near one 1000000 words related to his work as Chief of the Mint. Then roughly 3 meg related to science and math.
[0]https://world wide web.wired.com/2014/05/newton-papers-q-and-a/
It'southward a useful idea framework to rid yourself of the feet of doing things you think are morally questionable.
Side note, I understand that's a pocket-size mistranslation: "Death" is more similar "Time" (which eventually destroys all things). In that line, I imagine a Hindu counterpart of Chronos -- Fourth dimension the Reaper, which mows men downwardly at the cease of their flavor, like so much grass. Ozymandias also.
This, then, would have less to do with the explosive power of the Trinity exam, and more to do with the decaying remnants of missile silos, which are already ruins.
Oppenheimer'south quote is, while not quite a mistranslation, incomplete. The original quote would more properly interpret every bit an incarnation of "time" rather than "death."
Anybody who is honest will tell you that Hindu religious texts are ultimately about justification for "varnashrama dharma".
(Varnas are plainly a niggling different from its contemporary form - caste, but also shares many essential features. Namely, pre-determination of social status and broad occupations based on birth and endogamy, although it'due south more like a woman from a college varna can not marry a man from a lower varna.)
Why is Arjuna's dharma to fight? Considering he is a Kshatriya. Why shouldn't Arjuna worry well-nigh what consequences the war might have on his family unit and club? Well, because Krishna himself is the upholder of Varnashrama Dharma. Arjuna should only worry about doing his duty, and non worry about such lofty matters.
>Hindu religious texts are ultimately about justification for "varnashrama dharma"
No! That is a very shortsighted and narrow view of a complex and nuanced subject.
For details, I recommend that you lot look into the works on Dharma and Ashrama System by the noted Indologist Patrick Olivelle.
>What stuff might exist interesting in Bhagavad Gita for a scientist similar him?
A specific Worldview and cultivating a Mindset to become with information technology which takes Decease and Total Destruction equally role of a Universal Lifecycle.
Bhagvad Gita is a proponent of merely war. Ambivalence in Bhagvad Gita tin be used to endorse any position you find yourself in. Human activity but don't act - perfect text which gives aplenty manoeuvring space if you are feeling spiritual.
Non really. War is definitely the context in that location as it is said that information technology was spoken during the war itself, just it lays out what to do at what time. It isn't ambiguous plenty so that anyone can interpret it in any way. It lays out the scenarios and only states what is right to do in that scenario.
The ambiguity lies in which scenario you're choosing as an analog to your present. And yes the Bhagavad Gita is great for justifying atrocities to the individual, hence why Himmler carried it around.
No. As with everything else in life, context is important. One can hands merely read it and and so go on to justify their doings using information technology if they either don't know or choose to ignore the context of it.
Whole of Bhagvad Gita was spoken during the Mahabharata War. Information technology contains some overall guidance i.due east. it can be applicable to normal day life likewise as situational guidance on the context of the going war.
In mahabharata war countless men died.
Information technology was all justified by someone who goes by proper noun Krishna in ancient text. Krishna origin is questionable every bit he's not ane person throughout his history but fusion of multiple personalities which existed in by.
Krishna could as well be a master manipulator who convinced other's that God and him are actually just one. Many Kings of that fourth dimension actually did try to get God the prime case was Pondrak who believed he'southward the existent Vasudev. His version couldn't survive considering he lost the battle confronting Krishna.
Mahabharata is not useful to for an average person, reading information technology will not enlighten you or anything. It's not a guide on how to live your life, it has many flaws, questionable ethics and morality defined in the text, bringing God into it to brand beyond contest.
If information technology had annihilation of utilize, India where this religious text is most popular would exist epicenter of skilful beliefs, technological advancements, ideals and morality. Is it? No information technology's far away from information technology.
Before anyone questions my organized religion, I am Hindu from north Bharat (Uttarakhand Purohit clan to exist specific)
1. In the first sentence you talk about the Mahabharata war as it was real.
two. Then y'all disbelieve Krishna existence not existent.
Do yous encounter the obvious logical contradiction? Btw, unlike Christianity, Hinduism doesn't rely on Mahabharta being real. And so this bending is a common assault from Christians.
Your previous comment:
> 666 is number of the beast. I wonder how many thiest scientists would have refused to piece of work on information technology if they were to use 666
Why would a non-Christian believe that?
You lot are probably new to the site and don't know that people can come across your past comments.
Your language perfectly mirrors the ane used by missionaries in India (studied at 1 such school only didn't get baptized).
India always had one of the biggest economies in the earth before Industrial Revolution in the Europe.
Expecting anything to exist "epicentre of proficient behavior" is wrong to begin with because every person is different no matter what any text/information/knowledge the person has access to and aboriginal Republic of india (as that is what we're talking about here) did have stable economies as well every bit kingdoms. Was information technology perfect? No, because nothing is.
India had pretty meaning technological advancements and all you lot have to exercise is Google Search for information technology.
Y'all have cool definition of "anything of use". If you want everything to be perfect, then bad luck, in that location isn't such identify to go for yous.
AFAIK, Krishna was a charioteer in the original mahabharata from 1000BC. Later additions to the story around 400-200BC turned him into a God. The Gita is as well a afterward introduction. How does this gel with Krishna being an amalgamation of multiple personalities, equally opposed to a later invention (past Brahmins?) to justify varna vyavastha or other objectives? I have read that Gita was created as a response to Buddhist texts besides.
> It's not a guide on how to live your life, it has many flaws, questionable ethics and morality defined in the text, bringing God into it to make beyond contest.
Can you please elaborate.
>Earlier anyone questions my faith, I am Hindu from northward India (Uttarakhand Purohit clan to exist specific)
What Vedanta schoolhouse of estimation are you talking about.
That's the greatness of Bhargava's Gita and Hinduism. You lot are admittedly entitled to your own stance and questions. As did Arjuna who pestered Krishna with continuous questions in Bhargava's Gita. Hinduism , more specifically Santayana Dharma is not based on commandments , it is based on questions and answers.
Every bit a Hindu I would exist very interested in parts of Gita which justify atrocities. I don't empathise how anybody would spread nonsense like that.
War for Dharma, and you perfectly know everything can exist called dharma in Hindu religious texts. Cleaning toilets, dharma for the subjugated degree Hindu; worshipping god - dharma for the dominant degree Hindu; fighting territorial war - dharma for the kshtriya. Dharma is primal cadre of bhagvad gita and which renders information technology ambiguous and yet bonny to sure people. Define whatsoever as your dharma and y'all are on your mode to do good.
Modernistic Example: Steve Bannon was divers every bit Dharmic warrior by Indian Delegate Full general to The states.
Non actually, Bhagvad Gita, like near Hindu religious texts, is a justification for Varnashrama Dharma.
If anyone is curious about good versions of the text, or virtually the Mahabharata in full general, I recommend Bibek Debroy. His 20 volume Mahabharata is very well written, and includes the Bhagavad Gita. Notwithstanding he has other translations of the Gita in and of itself. They're all worth a wait-see.
The Bhagavad Gita is i of the most extensively translated texts in the world. Unfortunately this allows a lot of not-so-good and personal interpretations to pollute an unbiased study of the text. I found the following two translations/interpretations pretty skilful to get at the cardinal ideas;
* The Bhagavad Gita (Oxford Globe'southward Classics) translated by West.J.Johnson - This is a very good and succinct translation in the spirit of the original text and should be the starting time one you lot read.
* The Bhagavad Gita (ii vols in ane) translated and interpreted by Franklin Edgerton - Contains one of the best interpretations of the Gita based on the underlying Hindu Worldviews. Edgerton was a giant in Sanskrit studies and his luminescence shows here.
This is brilliant thank you, some great real world advice in Hindu texts.
I wonder if Yoga is now mainstream, and Mindfulness aka Meditation which is ane of the Eight limbs of Yoga. THe due west will now start reading more than into Hindu scriptures.
If anyone wants to read the original texts of the Gita its here
https://asitis.com/
A caput's up to anyone who decides to use this source: The translation and commentary in Bhagawat Gita As It Is are from ISKCON's particular estimation of the Gaudiya Vaishna perspective. While they become a disproportionate amount of printing relative to their size, they are non representative of mainstream Hinduism.
This is truthful near it being from ISKCON however it is incorrect to say they are not representative of mainstream Hinduism, at to the lowest degree not in the Britain. A huge number of the Gita volume distribution is in their format as its a trusted source (rather than British Raj time interpretations).
Even the boilerplate Hindu who is non from ISKCON will happily attend and follow ISKCON teachings equally they are considered bona fied, look how many turned upwards to Janmashtami celebrations this week:
https://www.watfordobserver.co.u.k./news/19538987.35-000-expec...
I would rather trust this translation from a trained lineage.
The Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition sees Krishna as the original class of god. Every other school considers Krishna to be an avatar of Vishnu. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is considered an avatar of Krishna by Gaudiya Vaishnavas while anybody else sees him equally a mortal devotee of Krishna and non Krishna himself.
These are fundamental differences in theology. Prabubada's translation is in service of the beliefs of his lineage which at times are incomparably confronting what the mainstream believes.
The fact that ISKCON is popular in a country where less than ~1.v% of the population identifies as Hindu doesn't mean that they are representative of mainstream Hinduism.
At that place are probably dozens of other translations by bonafide practitioners of other lineages which are closer to what the vast bulk of Hindus actually believe.
Simply because only Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition sees Krishna as the original form of God. Does not hateful other Hindu philosophies don't either. Goto any Sanatan Temple and they will have his Deity and preach the one accepted scripture the Gita which besides states he is the highest class. Many other traditions accept Vishnu's forms as the highest. The concept of ism, Vaishnavism and Shiavism is very much a British classification using English linguistic communication words.
Recently came across a very good video on YouTube past a guy named cogito(1) which mentions Bhagavad gita, vedas and gives a skillful unbiased intro to Hinduism.
If you're curious near it and how the whole thing like caste system, etc evolved it's a good intro.
(one) xlBEEuYIWwY
Overall a good video, merely information technology gets i office wrong: caste has e'er been from nascency, not power. This is a dishonest estimation that has been attempted to seemingly make Hinduism more uniform with mod values.
Every bit an example, in Ramayana, in a story starting from chapter 73 (The Death of a Brahmin's Son), Rama kills a Shudra for performing ascetic rituals. The unrighteousness of this Shudra performing these rituals - suitable for Brahmins - was apparently the reason for the death of the kid.
Most of the caste aspects afaik were introduced into the original texts after 400BC. These include Balakand, uttarakand (shambuka), Gita etc.
This implies some course of birth based degree system existing earlier 400BC which was solidified via new religious texts and additions to already popular old texts culminating with the Manusmriti and rigid degree system by 200 AD. The obvious beneficiaries were the Brahmins who wrote the text. Older texts are a chip more fluid in terms of nascency based caste.
I read Bhagavad Gita for a philosophy course. It made me very interested in religion and philosophy. Highly recommend it for anyone, it's a relatively arctic read too.